TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

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Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

Interesting! It's not that common - most examples I've seen don't have coupling links. I can't see because of the angle of your picture, but the coupling links must be arranged to be slightly off-centre as otherwise they would touch the AJ wire and possibly interfere with its functionality.

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by jimwatt2mm »

I actually let the links hang slightly off-centre and they hold the AJ very slightly over to the right (as you look at it head on). I find this presses the couplings together slightly and keeps them coupled better. It's only by about the thickness of the wire, 8thou in my case. Probably not an issue in the larger (4mm and above) scales.

Jim W
Dave John
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:42 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Dave John »

Well, I have been sorting out all my stock. My policy now is to have short rakes with 3 links within the rake and magnetic ajs on the end of the rake. That end with the 3 link screw will become an inner end, so they will generally run as a pair. In reality its a way of running a practical model railway whilst fighting with ageing eyesight.

Although its rotten video this gives the idea;


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -no-hands/
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

peterbunce wrote:
Interestingly are the spoked wheels, the Dia. 11A has the Mansell wheels; any idea when they changed them please?

Peter.
There doesn't seem to be any logical reason why the Diagram 83 van had spoked wheels (it's the only one that has been photographed as far as I know). If there was going to be a change from Mansell wheels at the time they were constructed, the new wheels would have been steel disc.

Likewise, I have never understood why some carriages in the 1880s had spoked wheels (Carriage Book pp. 140 and 142). The widespread use of Mansell wheels was because their construction made them slightly resilient and the ride of a spoked wheel carriage would have been harder.

Best

Mike
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

Thanks for that Jim. I like it! It just so happens that I've just embarked on an AJ fitting/tweaking exercise, and I will try your method out. Just one further question: presumably you fix the top link to the hook to give the offset, but do the lower 2 links swing free or are they restrained (by soldering or otherwise) to hang vertically as one unit?
I've decided to standardise the dropper on the version Chris Pendlenton showed in the MRJ article in 2013 - the one he calls the 'clipped U', and have a tub of these made up ready to fit to all my wagons. And I've rigged up an electromagnet on my test track so that I can test each wagon for coupling/uncoupling as I go along - so just the right time to check out your arrangement!
Dave I've also thought about having rakes connected permanently - it would make sense for me to have rakes of empty wagons for movement in and out of the Goods Shed. I like your idea of mechanically applied magnets as an alternative to electromagnets, and I think that if I find I need more uncoupling points, I'll go for magnets instead like you've done.
Apologies for hijacking the D11A CCT thread, guys.

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Alan, if you have the Alex Jackson book, p25/6 will show you how I mount my couplings. I tend to arrange the main part of the coupling to cross the headstock slightly off-centre to the right and then a slight bend to bring the tip of the coupling nearer the centre line. I just let all of the links hang free. They can get a wee bit tangled from time to time, but not usually to the detriment of the AJ's working.

I've just finished some Dia 21 and 22 wagons tonight and taken an end shot of one of the Dia 22's which I hoped would show the arrangement but it's not terribly clear. It's difficult to get clear close-up photos of 2mm stuff!
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Jim W
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

Thanks for that Jim. I do indeed have the AJ Handbook and did read your contribution, but I missed noticing the links attached in 2 of the pictures (and you don't mention it in the text). I have now tried it and I agree it doesn't seem to affect the working of the coupling. But the 3 links do get affected by the magnetic field when the electromagnet is activated, and move like a cobra swaying to the snake charmer's pipe!! Maybe a brass bottom link might be needed...!

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Alan K wrote:........... But the 3 links do get affected by the magnetic field when the electromagnet is activated, and move like a cobra swaying to the snake charmer's pipe!! Maybe a brass bottom link might be needed...!

Alan
Ah! Of course I use phosphor bronze wire for both the couplings and the links. Two reasons for that. If you use steel wire for the AJ's in 2MM, the magnetism causes the two couplings to stick together and so they both come down. Secondly, it tarnishes to a nice 'rusty' brown!

Jim W
tony brenchley
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:36 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by tony brenchley »

Super work Dave. I said you would be the first with finished CCTs!

Tony B
tony brenchley
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:36 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by tony brenchley »

Super work Dave. I said you would be the first to finish the CCTs.

Tony B
Dave John
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:42 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Dave John »

Heh, cheers Tony.

Mind you, it was a great kit. I made a couple of modifications. The chassis is held to the body with small self tappers , 2 mm ish behind the wheels at each end. I also cheated a bit with the buffers.

Paint is just halfords Ford Burgandy red. For the louvres I mixed stone and yellow enamel. When dry I used a very old soft pencil ( 4B ? ish) , sharpened it well then just ran it under each louvre.

Really it does show what can be done with well designed masters prepared and cut on the silhouette then assembled and sent for resin casting. Many thanks to all involved.
tony brenchley
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:36 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by tony brenchley »

Bases for Brake Components

Those of us who have assembled underframes for the CCT will know that one of the most awkward jobs is soldering the cast white metal brake components into the underframe. To make life a little easier I mounted mine on some scraps of etch brass with a new support and then glued these to the underframe with 5 minute Araldite. As usual the photo says it all.
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Tony B
Graham Tipple
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Graham Tipple »

I have started assembling one of Tony's excellent kits. The instructions provided elsewhere on this site are very helpful. One thing that has dogged me a little at first is the removal of the web of resin from the window to create a clear space for glazing. I am going for two clear lights each side. At first, I drilled holes reasonably near the corners and attempted to join them up with a sharp blade. This was when I discovered that resin is quite brittle. A (in scale terms) great gash appeared taking in part of the droplight woodwork. I have redeemed the situation by taking away all the droplight woodwork on one side of the opening and adding a strip of plastikard. I have found that the resin is easy to work by paring away along an edge with a sharp blade so that, under my lit magnifier, I can get the window opening pretty closely cut out. Any chinks can be gently cut across and then pared away. The inside edge of the resin seems to be left with some roughness but careful paring there cures it. I hope I can prevent anyone else making such a slip up! Best wishes, Graham
LarryC
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:28 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by LarryC »

Dave

Your models are superb. I'm just sending off an order on the strength of seeing them.

Larry
peterbunce
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 11:57 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by peterbunce »

Hi,

In the new copy of the very interesting 'The True Line' on page 31, the CCT behind the loco, which may be one of the later slightly longer ones,(the ticket board has changed ends, to the same as the 6 wheel CCT) there is a handbrake shown.

I thought there must be one (how do you keep it stopped on a gradient when the brakes, over time, 'leak off'?

Mine are a scale 7 feet long and would I think be one fitted later increasing to one each side.

Peter
Coronach
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Coronach »

I’ve spent an enjoyable couple of hours assembling the underframe for the first of my pair. It’s really well designed and tomorrow I should be able to finish off the brake gear and add the cast details. I’ve managed this without instructions but all seems OK. The only issue I have is that the completed assembly is a smidgen wide for the underside of the body so I guess the inside of the solebars will need a bit of milling tomorrow too.
No great problem if you take care though.
The Diagram 11a seems to be an ideal weekend project.

Dave.
tony brenchley
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:36 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by tony brenchley »

Dave
'
I think I did mention this in the instructions that you managed without!

I scraped the inside of the solebars gently with a sharp craft knife with the end of the blade broken off so it doesn't go through the floor. You won't have to remove much.

Tony B
Coronach
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 am

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Coronach »

Thanks Tony. A bit of scraping and it fits like a glove! :)
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

Finally got around to building this kit at last!
Having almost finished the underframe, I think there is a dimensional error in the etch which affects the fitting of the white metal brake cylinder parts.
In my opinion, the length of the strut which supports the cruciform lever is much too short. Unfortunately, the G.A. drawing for the Diagram 11A does not show the brake arrangement, but Mike Williams comes to our rescue with the G.A. for the Diagram 39 Fish Fruit and Milk Van in the Wagon Book which is surely a close cousin which almost certainly shares the same brake parts. This drawing shows that the pivot for the cruciform lever comes roughly level with the axle centres. Scaling off this drawing, I get the projection below the solebar of the pivot point to be about 4mm longer than the etch's pivot point. That would explain why the construction notes say that the operating rod has to be reduced to a stump!
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Part completed with white metal parts epoxy-ed in place.

This shows the extent of the projection beneath the solebar and compares well I think with the photos which are available of No.9 and No 28.
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Incidentally I think that dear Tony B got it right, because he mounted the WM parts on little brass plates for fixing to the floor with epoxy and therefore had to replace the support strut....!

Alan
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

All the photos I've seen of these CCT s show that tiebars were fitted. These aren't included in the kit however, but aren't difficult to make. From what I can see in the photos, the tiebars were rod rather than bar, with flats for attachment to the w irons. Scaling off the Diagram 39 GA drawing, these very conveniently approximate to 0.45mm wire - but to form the flats I had to resort to flattening the ends with a hammer and the anvil shown below!
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In the photo, the tiebar has been soldered in place and the rather untidy flattened end on the left has been covered by a cosmetic overlay which features the rivet detail. The overlay for the right hand side can be seen below on the wooden block, ready for soldering in place. There's also a lamp-iron added to the body, which is also featured in the available photos, although I'm not altogether sure why they're present.
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Both ends now fitted, and axleboxes back in place (the soldering unfortunately softens the epoxy). I'm rather regretting that I didn't add mounting straps to the white metal cylinders before fitting - might still attempt that, as they are clearly visible in the photos.
Then the next task will be to make and fit those wretched steps on top of the buffer casings.....

Alan
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Would the lamp brackets not be for mounting side lamps when the vehicle was attached as tail traffic?

Jim W
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

Yes of course you are right Jim: not thinking straight - forgetting that these aren't just vans, they're NPCS!

Now to the welded steps on the buffer casings. I found these fiddly and a bit tricky to make, but it's the same with all these scratch-built things - there's usually a way but it takes a few attempts to find it before you lose the will to live....! It would have been so much easier if it had been included on the etch, but you can't have everything.
The 'legs' have to mate onto the buffer casing, but there are 2 diameters involved - and different lengths.
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These are the 2 parts (on the left). The outer leg is one piece with the step, scored and bent into position, and the inner leg has to be soldered in place, as on the right. I managed to get the curvature right using the matching diameter of a rat-tailed file - the 2 legs needed to be different curvature to match the buffer body.
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The soldering part turned out to be easy using a wooden Costa stirrer with two cuts made with the piercing saw, the parts inserted into the cuts and the whole thing pushed together against the edge of the stirrer. Once held in place, a touch of the soldering iron melts the solder sweated to the underside of the 'step' and Bob's your uncle - but I won't tell you how long it took me to find such a simple solution!
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This is a very cruel enlargement, which shows that I haven't quite got the step to rest on the inner part of the casing, but it's close and not really visible in practice.
Now nearly finished - just have to fit the vacuum and Westinghouse hoses. I seem to remember that there was some debate about how the vac pipe was hinged so that it could be moved out of the way to allow the end doors to be opened, but I can't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

I finally found the detail about the little quadrant on the solebar(marked 'A' on the photo of No. 9): it can be found in the GA for the Dia 39 on p176 of the Wagon book - the plan shows that it appears at the same position on each side. Another tiny item which would have been nice to have on the fret! A pain in the neck to make... Didn't take any close-up, but here is it fitted to the solebar.
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The van is now complete and ready for painting (and has been for quite some time!)
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Unfortunately I had to butcher some of the brake harnesses to get the AJ couplings in, but it isn't really visible from the normal viewpoint.
lindsay_g
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 pm

CCT 11a - glazed droplights again!

Post by lindsay_g »

I'm going to resurrect a debate from a few years ago.

There were a few conflicting thoughts on whether the 2 side doors were glazed or otherwise - I think there was agreement that they were both droplights whether glazed or not, and perhaps the consensus was that only one was glazed. Period images put forward at the time did seem to tie that idea down. At the time I went along with the idea of only one being glazed based on images produced, but why the 2 doors would be treated differently always seemed rather odd to me.

However, I'm not so sure any images of CCT No 9 were available at the time or not, but an extract from an image of that vehicle's doors does more than suggest that they were both glazed or otherwise, and to me as they are more reflective than surrounding bodywork suggests glazed.

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And the thoughts of the jury now are??? Perhaps there was no uniformity on delivery.

Also, there is no colour differentiation between the bodywork and droplights - so were they really painted (or naturally stained) mahogany on these CCT's?

Lindsay
Alan K
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: TLM Diagram 11A Covered Carriage Truck

Post by Alan K »

That looks pretty convincing to me that at least No. 9 had glass droplights in both windows. Maybe the glass on No. 28's window had been broken and was boarded up until it could be fixed! We'll probably never know....
I will probably chicken out of cutting open a second droplight as I found the resin to be a little brittle and needed quite careful paring to avoid chipping in the wrong place! Besides, I only made two clear interference inserts to be fitted after painting!
I'm rather ashamed to admit that my CCT still hasn't reached the paint-shop yet, although it does now sport a screw coupling at one end in place of the AJ and it also has flexible hoses with magnets to allow it to couple up to the the Milk Van (which likewise hasn't reached the paint-shop either!) But 2 more vehicles need to be constructed before it's airbrush time!

Alan
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