Dunblane operating question.

The day to day working of the Caledonian Railway Company, including its constituents and successors.
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jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Dunblane operating question.

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Tony Heywood, who is leading the team in Aberdeen working on the Dunallander 2FS layout, which is closely based on Dunblane, has posed a 'conundrum' (his word) regarding operations at Dunblane. I quote his email to me:-

Here's a nice little conundrum from summer 1961, appropriate for the weekend as it concerns the southbound SO morning freight from Oban to Stirling.
This freight is timed to stand at Dunblane 13:43-14:00 to shunt or let trains pass.
During that time the 13:28 Callander to Glasgow Buchanan Street calls at Dunblane 13:52-13:54, and the afternoon northbound Stirling-Oban freight passes at 13:55.
There is no crossover at the south end, so a southbound departure from the loop is impossible.
So, where does the southbound freight stand?
I don't think it's likely that there was any shunting of the yard, not least because of the difficulties caused by other traffic for running round there at this time, so the options appear to be:
1/ pull into the long refuge off the Oban line, reversing out once the northbound freight has cleared the section

2/ use the goods yard, presumably the long siding parallel with the loop, reversing out once the northbound freight has cleared the section.

3/ arrive at the up platform, reverse into the up line refuge siding, then pull forward back onto the main line as it departs.

Attached is the 1963 signalling diagram. It lacks only the up line and Oban line refuge sidings (the latter seems to be a catch point at levers 20/21.

Which option do you think, and why?


Can anyone answer this.

Jim W
Dunblane M1 1963 signalling plan web.jpg
Dunblane M1 1963 signalling plan web.jpg (19.85 KiB) Viewed 1151 times
Graham R
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Graham R »

Would the most obvious move not be to put the Up freight in the platform loop until the following passenger was off the branch and the Down branch freight had passed through the station on the main line, then reverse the Up freight back onto the branch before setting off over the main line crossover southwards? That move is fully signalled in and out, and keeps the Up freight under the signalman's control rather than in a siding or yard. Running a freight on a falling gradient into a yard siding with greasy or poorly-maintained rail, where the driver had no guarantee that his path was clear, would require lower speeds and so slower operation. Finally, sighting the ground signal for the move back onto the branch whether from yard or loop would have been difficult. There was a telephone at the south end of the platform loop so the driver or fireman could confirm he had the road.

In the event that there was traffic for the south in the yard, the locomotive could leave its train in the platform loop, round it by way of the Down main line, place any vehicles on the rear of the train, and return to the head of the train by returning bang road along the Down main (a signalled move).

The 1960 BR(ScR) West sectional appendix makes no mention of a refuge siding on the Oban line, only an Up refuge on the main line. The North shunt siding (the shunting neck for the yard) had a restriction that engines or vehicles were not permitted to stand in it.

regards
Graham
Loch Awe
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Loch Awe »

The diagram seems unclear for some reason. Here's a better copy.
Loch Awe
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Loch Awe »

Sorry wont seem to attach despite being under 2 meg. :-(
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Loch Awe wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:08 pm Sorry wont seem to attach despite being under 2 meg. :-(
I had the same problem with trying to post it and had to reduce the size of the image, hence the poor quality. It's a pity there is nowhere on here wher full size images can be posted.......or is there?

Jim W
Loch Awe
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Loch Awe »

Its strange when its under the 2meg stated limit. If anybody wants a copy of my original drop me a message.
R
Sinclair
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Sinclair »

Prompted by Graham Roberts who had done some digging into phpBB software settings I have made some changes which should allow larger images to be posted - subject still to an overall 2MB file size to help manage storage on the forum’s server.

We have had images set to a maximum 800 x 600 pixels since the forum started to try to manage storage space - hopefully the 2MB limit will help with that and we have also significantly increased the server storage size. If we eat up too much space we can revisit.

There is a setting whereby if an image is >1000 *1000pixels wide it will appear as a link - this stops the width of the webpage getting out of hand if very wide images are loaded but should still allow them.

I’m hoping this will allow a larger Dunblane track plan to be loaded which will help with resolution of this query.

Sinclair
Loch Awe
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Loch Awe »

Thanks Sinclair, trying loading again.

R
Attachments
Dunblane M1 1963.jpg
Dunblane M1 1963.jpg (1004.9 KiB) Viewed 1003 times
Bill_Gensheet
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Dunblane operating question.

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

Much bettter image thanks.

My guess, is close to option 1 but with one difference.

11 - 36 - stop in loop line.
Quickest way to get TOOS to Doune for the very close following train, dep Doune 13:46

Shunt back onto Oban line as soon as Oban freight clears TC 2145 - no need for the section to clear which would be at least 14:05.
34R 23R, FPL's 35 & 22, 41

Stop behind 13
25R, FPL 24, 13
14:00 away
Once TOOS Cornton, 14

How many rules does that break ?
Bill
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