Relationship between the Caledonian and the Lancashire & Yorkshire

The day to day working of the Caledonian Railway Company, including its constituents and successors.
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RossB
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:53 pm

Relationship between the Caledonian and the Lancashire & Yorkshire

Post by RossB »

Something with I have often wondered but haven't seen anything written about before is the relationship between the Caledonian and the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway. The L&Y and LNWR were clearly aligned (and eventually amalgamated just before the grouping) but how did the Caley fit in? Some points to consider:

- Some portions of Edinburgh/Glasgow to Liverpool/Manchester express used L&Y coaches instead of WCJS vehicles. I don't think the L&Y were ever formally part of the West Coast Joint Stock arrangements but perhaps a traffic sharing agreement with the LNWR?

- Many L&Y coaches were built to the limits of the Caley loading gauge. Suggests through running was more common than just a few through coaches.

- In 'Historic Carriage Drawings Volume Two' there is a drawing of a L&Y 12 wheel dining car on which is written 'not to run on the Caledonian Railway'. This seems a curiously specific note, if it was out of gauge for the Caley then surly the same would apply to many other lines. Why would the L&Y try to send a vacuum fitted dining car onto the Caley?

- L&Y coaches seem to have been frequently used on excursions onto the Caley system. There are reports of the Caley using the stock on its own services before sending it back. Probably a frequent practice at the time but suggests some kind of a working relationship.

- The L&Y used a very distinctive style of carriage paneling which few other companies used. The Caley did however adopt a very similar style of it's pre-war 57' coaches.

- L&Y vacuum fitted wagons are quite common at the head of Caley goods trains presumably returning home empty. Was there a regular flow of perishables etc from the L&Y to the Caley?

Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it but I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of others.

Ross
caleyJim
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Relationship between the Caledonian and the Lancashire & Yorkshire

Post by caleyJim »

Ross

In October 2009 there was a joint meeting of the LMS Society, the Caledonian Railway Association, the Glasgow & South Western Railway Association and the Highland Railway Society was held at the Metropolitan College, Glasgow on the topic of 'The LMS in Scotland'.

As part of it Noel Coates gave a presentation on 'The L&Y and some connections to the Caledonian'. You'll find his slides on this link and hopefully they might cast some light on the matter for you

https://www.lmssociety.org.uk/presentat ... aley01.php

Jim :D
RossB
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:53 pm

Re: Relationship between the Caledonian and the Lancashire & Yorkshire

Post by RossB »

Excellent, thanks Jim.

Certainly a good starting point for further research.

Ross
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