Signalling at Doune

Any aspect related to the structures and equipment on the Caledonian Railway Company.
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Bill_Gensheet
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Signalling at Doune

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

Has anyone got any signalling information for Doune ? Seems a bit of an information void compared to the rest of the line.

Obviously changed around a lot with the single - double - single for the line from Dunblane.
So far I have got:
1900 OS map - original single line, East box present. Shows signal post locations but not what they were and also seems too many.
1909 track diagram from TTL - double line and east box present.
LMS diagram from TTL - no change from 1909.
1950 OS map - different signal locations and not may of them. Only at 6 inch scale so not an accurate track plan nor showing SB's.
1960's images from TTL and the Oakwood DVD's.

Did East box function to the end ?

Bill
dunalastairv
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 am

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by dunalastairv »

The S.R.S. signal box register suggests that Doune East did function until the line closed but the detail is more complicated than this would seem: from May 1915 it was fitted to be open 'only as required'. An unconfirmed date suggests that from October 30th. 1955 the box was closed and converted to a ground frame, and this arrangement lasted to the end. I've never seen a picture of Doune East, so if anyone has a photograph, it would be fascinating to see it here: the West Box I remember well and visited after the line closed but before the track was lifted and the buildings demolished. Quite why I didn't remove the C.R. enamel nameplate then, when all else had been vandalised, is one of those childhood vagaries that sticks with you! The box at Doune East was apparently the second one, the first opening on August 1st. 1882 and closing on June 9th. 1902, when its replacement began operating. It had 45 levers. The new box was no doubt part of the Caley's extensive rebuilding of the station, in opulent style: West Box was renewed at the same time.

Michael.
Loch Awe
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Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Loch Awe »

Hi Bill

Diagram attached. I have further signalling diagrams for Doune if you drop me a PE.

kind regards,

Robert
Attachments
Doune-M5-1955-rot.pdf
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Bill_Gensheet
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

Thanks for the replies, and for the map Robert.
From the distances involved, would 4 and 5 have been the former Doune East signals simply connected up to West box ?


Further maps would indeed be of interest as I would prefer to have the double track setup for the simulation, I have two trains passing east of Doune for one of the timetables. Unfortunately the private contact is not be available to me. Could be a 'new member' limit on BB ?.
I can be emailed at bill at gensheet dot co dot uk


regards
Bill
Bill_Gensheet
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

This image, a processed version of the one from TTL archive page1698 (near the back of issue 67) might show Doune East, on the right just before what is Moray St bridge. Some evidence in among the jpg artifacts of a door and roof.

This is worth a look on Google maps streetview https://goo.gl/maps/YoFsjE3L8GD2 as the bridge and railway telephone pole are still present in that 2009 view. The aerial view has a block of new housing and the bridge may well have gone.
The new house below is where East box is shown on old OS maps.

regards
Bill
Attachments
Image1.jpg
Image1.jpg (82.78 KiB) Viewed 14545 times
dunalastairv
Posts: 325
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Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by dunalastairv »

Robert's signalling diagram proves that the implication in the S.R.S. Register that East Box was converted to a ground frame is not correct. Clearly the whole building was demolished and replaced by an actual, outide, 2-lever frame. It would be fascinating to see detail of Doune East's signalling on this post, if such records still exist, as I am quite unable to work out why 45 levers would be required at this location. To give some comparison, the whole of Quintinshill's layout was controlled by a 45-lever frame!
Loch Awe
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Loch Awe »

The other diagrams I have are a bit scrappy, so will re-draw then post. Meantime a few snippets from BoT Inspections.

Doune

July 13, 1904 – To facilitate working when East cabin closed, the Up Home moved westwards between the Up & Down Main Lines, 97 yds west of the East box and 445 yds east of the West box and becomes he West box Up Starting when the East box is closed.

MT29/66 Doune west

Sept 13th, 1904 – von Donop reported inspecting the Doune East Home had been given a slot so that it might be controlled from that box and also act as Up Starting signal for the west box when the East box was closed. The West box had 24 levers, 2 spare and 3 spaces.

MT29/100 Doune

Oct 10, 1957 – McMullen reported that the line had been singled from Dunblane and new Down facing points at Doune were power operated.

kind regards,

Robert
Bill_Gensheet
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

Was the original station at Doune just one platform with a non-platform loop ?
If so, might this bidirectionality explain some levers needed for slots and facing point locks ? I got up to about 20.

1864
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74960863
Designer liked 3-way points !
Assume 'open frames' not signalboxes back then so not marked

[From above, 1882 the signalboxes opened]

1900
https://maps.nls.uk/view/82899897
Both SB marked, an extra siding and some signal post markings moved.

[From above, 1902 the station rebuild and double line to Dunblane]

1950
https://maps.nls.uk/view/75656148
Although not as definitive as the 25inch-Mile series detail above, each ---+---+---- does tie up with the diagram posted as a line of rails
However no SBs shown and doubtful pointwork, for example the goods loop is not connected either end.

regards
Bill
Last edited by Bill_Gensheet on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Loch Awe
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Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Loch Awe »

Hi Bill,

Tried to load what I have for you but size too big. Send me a email and I'll ping them too you.

kind regards,

Robert
John Paton
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by John Paton »

Bill,

Here is a drawing sheet for the East box. It was a lower 'mirror image' version of the West box. I also upload two aerial photos in which the East box can be made out.

The SRS Signal Box Register Vol 6 Scotland records that the first Doune East box opened on 1.8.1882 and closed on 9.6.1902. The second box (the one in the drawing) opened on 9.6.1902, presumably with the with the Dunblane - Doune doubling. It closed on 30.10.55.

Photos of the east end of the station in 1964 / 65 show that the East Box had been demolished by then.

Send me a PM with your email address if you want higher-definition jpegs.

John Paton
Attachments
Doune 1950 3.jpg
Doune 1950 3.jpg (100.88 KiB) Viewed 14427 times
Doune 1950 2.jpg
Doune 1950 2.jpg (151.27 KiB) Viewed 14427 times
20181209_105938.jpg
20181209_105938.jpg (88.58 KiB) Viewed 14427 times
Bill_Gensheet
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Bill_Gensheet »

Below the 1900 OS map extract, when East box was on the down (south) side of the line.

Not obvious if there was an up platform at all, or how you'd get to it. More like goods / animal handling

regards
Bill
Attachments
OS map extract.  Full map at NLS in 25 inch/mile series
OS map extract. Full map at NLS in 25 inch/mile series
Doune-1900_2.jpg (83.35 KiB) Viewed 14375 times
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by jimwatt2mm »

These are cattle pens on the down line at the end of the dock. It took me a few years to realise what these shapes were on OS maps!

Jim W
Dave_W
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:11 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Dave_W »

I'm hoping to model Doune station. Its going to be set in the last 10 ten years - 1955-65 with the island platform but now single track to Dunblane
I've gone through all the back catalogue of True Lines and of course seen this thread. Unfortunately the only decent maps predate the station changes and rail layout. I would be grateful if anyone has any further information that could help me ascertain the layout post 1955 beyond that scetchy 6" OS map
Dave
John Paton
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by John Paton »

Dave,

I assume that you saw the Doune station drawings in True Line 34. Send me a PM if you want the original sheets from which I took these (they have additional information on them).

John
Trawest
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:36 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Trawest »

John

A new member here so catching up with what topics that are currently on the forums and found this thread on Doune station. Whilst I have not lived in Scotland now for many years the Doune and Callander area were visited on many an occasion in my youth (Even been to the top of Ben Ledi as well) and have walked along various parts of the old C&O line.

I am also interested in constructing a model of either of the Doune signal boxes dependant of what information collated. Could I be cheeky and ask for the photographs and architectural drawing of Doune East box that you provided to Dave.

I am aware of the information /plans to be had from the Archive section of the Caledonian Railway Association website and these are being sought at present.

Iain
Loch Awe
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Loch Awe »

Hi Iain,

If you drop me a message with your email I can send you various bits of Doune signalling info.

Best wishes,

Robert
Barry Rhys
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:25 am

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Barry Rhys »

Loch Awe wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:38 pm Hi Iain,

If you drop me a message with your email I can send you various bits of Doune signalling info.
Welcome to the CRA Iain. Just saw this and should let you know that you can't post PMs until you have made 5 posts on the Forum - it caught me out and will continue to catch out every new joinee! Either Robert can PM you instead straight away, or you think of 4 other things to make posts about!

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman
Loch Awe
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Loch Awe »

"I was waiting to see if you'd spot that Wilson" ;-) Thank Neil I'll message Barry.

R
John Paton
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by John Paton »

Iain,

I sent you a private message suggesting that if you give me your email address (by PM), I'll send you the drawing and photos.

John
Trawest
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:36 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Trawest »

Robert, Neil and John

Thank you for your responses to my post. I did see a previous post somewhere on this forum regarding the inability to PM someone without having
Made a number of previous posts but thank you for the reminder. I could quite easily make a number of posts regarding a number of station locations but I will keep to the Doune Signal box theme at the moment until I find my feet in using the CRA website and forum correctly.
I have responded to a PM made by John.

Trawest
Trawest
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:36 pm

Re: Signalling at Doune

Post by Trawest »

John

Post Number 6! - Whilst I received a PM from yourself I am not sure if you received my reply as I had only made a couple of previous posts on this Forum. I will send you another one.

Robert - I will send you a PM as well to see if the PM process is now working for this new member to the CRA.

Trawest
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