Livery for former WCJS stock

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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Graham Tipple
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by Graham Tipple »

Sorry to be dense but, when former WCJS stock was allocated to the Caledonian, was it repainted, lettered and numbered as normal CR stock? I can't find any reference in the livery or carriage books to the contrary so I assume it was. Graham
jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Fig 71 on p101 of 'A Register of West Coast Joint Stock' includes a WCJS lavatory 3rd to Dia. p.24 clearly carrying the lettering C.R and the number 1280.

Jim W
MIKEWILLIAMS
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

Graham, all the WCJS carraiges transferred to the CR were re-numbered as described in the Carriage Book. See pp. 193 and 194 for examples in CR livery.

Best

Mike
Graham Tipple
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by Graham Tipple »

Thanks, Jim and Mike. Graham
RossB
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:53 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by RossB »

Here's a couple of examples of ex-WCJS coaches in CR livery.

Ross
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jasp
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by jasp »

These look great and a credit to your modelling.
What is the bogie vehicle?
Jim P
jimwatt2mm
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by jimwatt2mm »

jasp wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:52 am What is the bogie vehicle?
Is it a 42ft Lavatory composite to P.16 as on pages 95/6 of Casserly and Millard?

Jim W
Graham Tipple
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Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by Graham Tipple »

Wonderful modelling. You must be very proficient with a bow pen. Graham
RossB
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:53 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by RossB »

Thanks. The bogie coach is indeed a P16 Brake Composite. There are 4 kits in the London Road Models range which are suitable for Caley modelers. The three below are a P21A Brake Composite, P15 Luggage Composite and a P29 Brake Third. The P29s retained their radial underframes after transfer to the Caley.
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I've actually never used a bow pen Graham. The coaches were painted all over lake first and dilute white acrylic was then 'floated' into the panels. The lining was done using Fox transfers which are probably a bit over scale. I only line out the lower section now, the 6 wheel van is fully lined but the lining on the upper panels isn't really noticeable when the model is running.

Ross
LarryC
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Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:28 am

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by LarryC »

Ross

Brilliant stuff. The liveries are so well executed. I have been upgrading my ex-LNWR stock which I built in...1982. How time flies. I see you painted the ends in red/brown (Sienna Red?); I reckon that is right as I'm having difficulty finding a definitive answer in Jim M and Mike W's books.
Mike 1
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by Mike 1 »

Love the 42ft composite, one of my favourite types. One of those bonkers carriages with a half compartment at each end. The railway worked out the required capacity to the nearest half compartment: half a Third and half a First. Madness, but nice!

Mike
jimwatt2mm
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Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by jimwatt2mm »

Mike, I don't think is was the company working out what capacity they needed but more what they could fit into the standard body length. Coupe compartments were often in coaches which had luggage or lavatory compartments as there wasn't sufficient length 'left over' for a full compartment.

Jim W
RossB
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Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by RossB »

Thanks Larry

I've painted the ends of the 6 wheel full brake red like the goods brake vans. Some photographs appear to show brake ends of passenger coaches a different shade to the rest of the body but lighting/shadows may be playing a part.

Ross
MIKEWILLIAMS
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

The liveries are so well executed. I have been upgrading my ex-LNWR stock which I built in...1982. How time flies. I see you painted the ends in red/brown (Sienna Red?); I reckon that is right as I'm having difficulty finding a definitive answer in Jim M and Mike W's books.
I quoted the various references to vermilion ends of carriage stock on p.89 of the Carriage Book, in particular the 1897 livery description which states that "the ends of passenger brake vans are vermilion" I'm not sure how much more definitive you can get.

Best

Mike
BrianSmith
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:10 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by BrianSmith »

On p194 of the Carriage Book at the bottom of the page is a photo (plate 8.14) at Perth of an ex-WCJS CR Diagram 29B Lavatory Brake Composite modified from a WCJS P21B Lavatory Luggage Composite. The end of the carriage is quite clearly a different colour from the lower side, the end colour (presumably vermilion) appears to carry over on to the lower side, becoming part of the sides vermilion lining.

BrianSmith.
LarryC
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Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:28 am

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by LarryC »

Mike

"I quoted the various references to vermilion ends of carriage stock on p.89 of the Carriage Book, in particular the 1897 livery description which states that "the ends of passenger brake vans are vermilion" I'm not sure how much more definitive you can get."

I had not wished to cause any upset; indeed at a MERG seminar the previous weekend I quoted you as one of my 'modelling heroes'. I could not find an answer to the colour of non-brake carriage ends. I have seen some black, others red brown (Sienna?). Whatever the answer, I will need to repaint some of my stock.
MIKEWILLIAMS
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: Livery for former WCJS stock

Post by MIKEWILLIAMS »

No upset on my part, Larry. Like the ends of goods brake vans, it's a vexed question - and my reply was a bit over-vexed! It doesn't add anything substantive to the evidence for the Caley, but according to West Coast Joint Stock LNWR carriages had ends the same colour as the sides. The statement is repeated in LNWR liveries.

Best

Mike
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