Interlaced points sleeper spacing

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
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lawman
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by lawman »

Having recently moved house and (almost) finished emptying boxes I'm now able to contemplate building a layout. With my previous part-built layout stripped for storage, I'm starting again from scratch.
Ideally, I'd like to use interlaced points as they're quite distinctive and am hoping forum members can help provide information and advice from their own experience.
I've checked previous posts on this subject but haven't been able to find details of sleeper spacing for points other than things were adjusted on the ground as required.
Were the sleeper spacings nominally the same as for straight track with closer spacing at joints, subject to adjustment to make things fit? (Sounds like the perfect excuse for a bodge) Would the spacings be as described in the extract of an article by Donald Mathieson on CR PW previously posted?
Having never built points before i'm planning to build a 'standard' point kit from C&L for practice before progressing to the interlaced variety to try to avoid biting off more than I can chew.

Iain
jasp
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by jasp »

I have some Templot prints of various interlaced turnouts and will be happy to scan a few examples if you send me your email address by private message. My ID here is jasp.
Jim P
John Duffy
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by John Duffy »

The building of interlaced paintwork is actually no more complex or challenging than any other type. Once you have the sleepers set out the process is much the same. I have some drawing that were shared with me and I am happy to do likewise with yourself. The caveat of course is that the experienced men on the ground would make it work, so there is some latitude.

What scale are you working in?

John
jimwatt2mm
Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by jimwatt2mm »

I based mine on this drawing which was sent to me by on of the Burntisland team (Fergus I think).
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Although not CR I assumed that there would be little difference. Note the two closely placed sleepers at the start of the closure rails and also that the nose of the crossing is supported on a timber of the straight, or main road. Other then that, the sleepers appear to be fitted as best they could. I also have a photo of a tandem on Burntisland which shows the arrangement for that.

I've had to reduce this in size to post on here, but can send you the original if you give me your email by PM.

Jim W
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by Alan K »

Hi Iain
If you are a 4mm modeller, I'd recommend Iain Rice's 'An Approach to Building Finescale Track'. It's a little out of date (only spdt
microswitches for current switching - no mention of servos), but it tells you everything you need to know about building trackwork - except that interlaced sleepers aren't covered! But in my experience, when you've plotted out the position of the rails there isn't much choice about sleeper spacing. The key thing is that each sleeper (and its chairs) must be at right angles to the rails it supports and the sleepers/ chairs on either side must be at right angles to the diverging rails. Apart from support of certain critical pointwork components, that effectively decides sleeper position. The only other key feature is 4'9" long sleepers!
C&L point kits are expensive if you've got a lot of pointwork to do. It isn't that difficult to build your own - Rice tells you how! The EM and P4 fraternity have built their own for decades, and the techniques apply for 00 too if that's your bag! Templot is a very useful tool which lets you plan your whole layout and allow you to blend your pointwork in seamlessly - just wish I had used it when I did my trackwork...

Alan
Last edited by Alan K on Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lawman
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by lawman »

Just wanted to thank everyone for their very prompt, helpful replies and kind offers to provide copies of drawings. As soon as I sort what appears to be a problem with pm's I'll be in touch. (Assuming it's not just my own incompetence, of course)
I model in 4mm OO gauge - not necessarily the most 'accurate' I know but I would like interlaced points if they're not beyond my abilities as they will help to set the scene.
The association has been a fantastic source of information and help. Between the contributions of those who've been so kind with their help, TL magazine, the publications and range of True Line models you've all made modelling the Caledonian far more possible than ever before so please accept my wholehearted thanks.

Iain
John Lindsay
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by John Lindsay »

Iain

When building my OO finescale pointwork, I used C&L components including their timber tracks wood sleeper bases. These are now supplied separately by Timber Tracks after the C&L part was sold off. Timber Tracks still do the NER interlaced sleeper base that I used, and it appears very much the same as the NBR drawing posted by Jim.

I found using the components, sleeper base and Templot combination fairly straightforward as a novice and they are all still working fine several years on.

Best of luck!

John
stuartp
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by stuartp »

I built an interlaced crossover in EM years ago using C&L components, I confess I used a standard template and made the interlacing up as I went along. The only difficulty I found (not of my own making) was that the lack of long timbers made it rather more flexible until it was firmly stuck down. If I was doing it again I'd glue it to the template rather than trying to lift it off the double sided tape afterwards.
Barry Rhys
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:25 am

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by Barry Rhys »

lawman wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:25 pm As soon as I sort what appears to be a problem with pm's I'll be in touch. (Assuming it's not just my own incompetence, of course)
Iain
Hi Iain. From memory, every single new user has remarked on this 'problem with PMs' and/or their perceived 'own lack of understanding/competence' until they have made 5 posts then suddenly 'the problem seems to have resolved itself'... Actually I believe this is not coincidence, our Forum software appears to permit sending PMs only after making 5 posts (perhaps Sinclair the forum administrator can confirm) - maybe it wants evidence that someone is committed to using the open forum before allowing personal messaging - so you should now be able to use the PM function fully.

Thanks too for starting this interesting topic, which one day hopefully will also be very useful for me.

Neil

** Just noticed that you're not exactly a new user - having made your first post in 2013! My apologies **
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman
David Blevins
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by David Blevins »

I must have picked these up from somewhere, possibly the CRA Archive ??
They might Help.

David Blevins.
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David Blevins
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by David Blevins »

Here are some more Caledonian Railway Permanent-Way Information from a Len Folkard, from an Article he wrote for the Caledonian Railway Consortium Newsletter away back in the 1970's, a predecessor to this Association.
I am sure it will be of Interest.

David Blevins.
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caleyJim
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by caleyJim »

I have these sitting on my hard drive. Given that the date on the original files is Feb 1998 I hope I can be forgiven for not remembering the source(s) although I would not be surprised if a couple of them came from Len Folkard. Something niggles that the portrait one came from an old Railway Modeller - it has certainly been scanned from a mag rather than an actual photo.

Jim
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caleyJim
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by caleyJim »

A similar location yielded this. Sorry for the sacrilege and again I can't remember the original source but it at least 25 years old.

Jim
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lindsay_g
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by lindsay_g »

Attached is the same file as seen previously but also including a diamond crossing. Unlike drawings of NBR trackwork, the CR seemed to use normal sleepers throughout their trackwork - no longer timbers, no wider timbers.However, when I built a 3 way point and a scissors crossover I couldn't see how the use of some longer timbers was avoidable but I did keep use of them to a minimum.


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I think the most common mistake in building interlaced trackwork is that sleepers are placed too close together - you can see from the drawings that where sleepers of the diverging tracks are interlacing the spacing can be far greater than normal.

I actually feel that, if anything, building interlaced pointwork is no harder, more enjoyable and also quicker - sleepers being used are pre-cut and pre-drilled whereas use of timbering means cutting to ever increasing lengths and then drilling holes accurately if rivets are employed. However, one thing to watch for is that there can be movement between the diverging tracks as nothing is tying them together, so it is better to solder spare track across the tracks if it is removed from a template, lay the track still attached to the template, or glue the templates to the baseboard and build the track directly onto the baseboard.

Lindsay
caleyJim
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by caleyJim »

caleyJim wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:19 pm I have these sitting on my hard drive. Given that the date on the original files is Feb 1998 I hope I can be forgiven for not remembering the source(s) although I would not be surprised if a couple of them came from Len Folkard. Something niggles that the portrait one came from an old Railway Modeller - it has certainly been scanned from a mag rather than an actual photo.

Jim
Looking for something else entirely I came across the source of these items. The portrait shot came from the Railway Modeller 1985 pp83. No location given but the photo was credited to S.C. Black. The other two are by the late Tony Brenchley and both say Burrelton 4/1971 on the back.
John Duffy
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by John Duffy »

I'm not sure the drawing shown earlier reflects the practice on the ground. There seems to be far too much unsupported rail in comparison to the photographs that are available. This may of course be a date/era difference but I have used photos and a practical approach to develop this set of laser cut points. This is a B7 in 7mm but the great thing about doing it like this is the ease at which these can be cut in any scale.


John
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B7 Interlaced.jpg
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caleyJim
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by caleyJim »

Like that - gets around issues of strength in the building. :)
Kelvin White
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:05 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by Kelvin White »

FAO John Duffy

I’m a new CRA member, working in 7mm. I’ve noted your laser cut interlaced point sleepers in TTL #157.
Have you drawn up other radius points? Are your laser cuts available to other members.

Please PM me.

Best regards

Kelvin
John Duffy
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by John Duffy »

Kelvin White wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:54 pm FAO John Duffy

I’m a new CRA member, working in 7mm. I’ve noted your laser cut interlaced point sleepers in TTL #157.
Have you drawn up other radius points? Are your laser cuts available to other members.

Please PM me.

Best regards

Kelvin
PM sent Kelvin.

It may be of interest to others that these are available in B7 and B8 currently and can be produced in any scale. I have also reduced the internal webbing to make removal after laying that little bit easier.

John
Kelvin White
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:05 pm

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by Kelvin White »

John

Thank you for your PM. Probably because I’m a new CRA member I don’t seem to be able to reply with a PM. I would like to buy 4 of your B8 sleeper packs. Can you email me on Kelvin.torteval@gmail.com, so we don’t annoy the good folks here.
Barry Rhys
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:25 am

Re: Interlaced points sleeper spacing

Post by Barry Rhys »

Kelvin White wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:16 pm Probably because I’m a new CRA member I don’t seem to be able to reply with a PM.
Don't worry Kelvin, I think this happens to nearly every new Forum member. Certainly me! After 5 posts you can start sending PMs.

And welcome to the CRA too.

Neil
Half Welsh, 100% Yorkshireman
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