Diagram 29 Milk Truck

How to do it, advice sought and offered.
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

Not sure what happened - I'm getting a 'not downloaded' message for each photo which I haven't come across before. I can see the pics if I click on them, but that's because they're on my PC and I suspect nobody else will be able to do that!
lindsay_g
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by lindsay_g »

Yes, they appear if we click on the .JPG link. There were some system changes made (mentioned on the Dunblane thread) which may have resulted in the change in appearance. Whilst there may be a perceived down side in not immediately seeing the images, it is a far bigger image that appears. Another down side is that you won't immediately be able to cross refer what is perhaps explained in the text with what appears in the image. Time will tell which is preferred - assuming my assumption is correct.

Lindsay

P.S. Nice work as usual. You certainly have ensured that I avoid the Deluxe product. I've not had problems with Mek Pak distorting plasticard/Evergreen strips (apart from 5 thou used for such things as wagon strapping). Plastic Weld I've found to be a bit more aggressive than Mek Pak.
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

Thanks for that Lindsay. I realised that I'd jumped to the wrong conclusion initially because I can open the pictures with my tablet, which doesn't have access to the picture files on my PC!
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

I found this paint tin, which is pretty close to the right diameter. The styrene former is of the roof curvature off the drawing.
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My method of forming the roof is to tape the selected panel to the outside of the tin and fill it up with boiling water. It doesn't take long for the heat to curve the styrene. I used 0.75mm styrene, which is quite resistant to curvature and found that I needed to fix a short strip of the same thickness alongside each long side of the roof panel before taping down. This was because otherwise the long edges tend to lift where the tape moves off the metal onto the styrene. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures..... I used parcel tape because I didn't have any drafting tape which would have been easier to clean off afterwards!
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It's looks much better with the roof on!
After much head scratching about how to fix the body to the underframe, I made little styrene brackets which are firmly fixed (with MEK!) to the inside of each end. These were then drilled and tapped for 14BA screws from underneath. This holds everything in position quite well but probably wouldn't be robust enough to stand a lot of removal and refitting but I'm not expecting to do that often if at all! You can just about see the construction of the roof alongside.
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I've still to do a fixing for the roof and might try using magnets at each end, and I also need to do some weighing and see where I can add some lead!
Still lots of little fiddly things to do....!
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

The convention for getting a decent weight to allow a wagon to stay on track is apparently 25g per axle, so I got out my stock of finest second hand lead flashing and managed to secrete enough on the underside of the floor and under the roof section to give me 76g as shown here-
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I decided to use magnets to attach the roof section to the body. Here is the arrangement: a 6mm diameter magnet epoxied at each end of the roof underside, which attach to pieces of steel which are epoxied to little styrene blocks fixed to the inside of the ends with MEK.
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The pieces of steel are from snap-off blades and are parallelogram shaped, which gives an illusion of one sloping down and the other sloping up but they are both horizontal!
Also to be seen are the 2 magnets and the attached pieces of lead flashing. The magnets work quite well - you can feel them pulling when the roof is nearly fitted in place. But not so powerfully that they pull off the epoxy fixings!

The next stage is to make and fit the ironwork straps, hinges and brackets. I have a little store of 0.9mm x 0.1mm nickel silver strips which come in handy for this sort of application - also finds use for wagon ironwork. They've clearly been produced using a guillotine type of cutter, as they've got a slight twist which is easily tweaked out. But each strip is 120mm long and is dead parallel. Bought them from John Flack years ago....
The bolt heads need to be formed on a rivet tool, and the problem with using such thin strip is that it is all too easy for it to slip under the side fence used to hold it in position and to guarantee that the rivets are all in line! So I made this little jig for restraining the little b-----s.
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It's basically two lengths of 1.5mm square brass soldered 0.9mm apart onto a piece of NiAg fret scrap to give a nice sliding fit of the strips. There is a hole drilled through at one end which is suitably tapered so as to allow the riveter punch shaft to go through without impedance. The riveter anvil protrudes through the white table so that it projects up by about the thickness of the fret scrap base.
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A finished rivetted strip can be seen. This is for one of the 4 vertical straps. The jig is held in place by a clamp and a magnet (with another magnet inserted into the table underneath. The strip is pushed through from right to left, and the left hand pencilled mark on the styrene strip (which is fixed in placed with double sided tape) shows me where the last formed rivet should be so as to put the next one in the right place!
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This is the straps and brackets fixed in place. Haven't done the hinges yet, and there are also lamp irons to do!
Jim Summers
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Jim Summers »

I do like that strapping, Alan. Worth the effort you have gone to with that set-up.
All done by Hogmanay?

Jim
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

'All done' is a relative term Jim! I'll probably finish the hinges and strapping, but painting most likely a 2024 job....!

Alan
AngusB
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:27 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by AngusB »

Hi Alan K
I came across this item only very recently when looking through TTL no 162 in a spare moment and seeing it in Mike Williams' column, so I apologise if my contribution is too late to be of any use.

Like other contributors I have found it difficult to get a true Cleminson system to work well in model form. I have had much more success with a system which uses one four-wheeled bogie and one two-wheeled pony truck - linked together mid-way along the vehicle so that the two 'trucks'' have a regulated small degree of rotation and can follow the curve. This is much easier to show in photos and sketches, which I can provide for several types of vehicle, but would take me a little while to put into a reply. I wanted to get this late offering away swiftly ! Please PM me if you feel that more on the three-axle suspension would be any use to you. I'm full of admiration for your model-building skill in the construction of the milk truck and wish you well with the project !

Another point which has cropped up in this thread is about vehicle weight and ballasting. I have found great benefit in ballasting bogies and carrying-trucks themselves, rather than (or as well as) the vehicle bodies that ride on them.

I suppose the whole subject of three-axle suspension (and possibly ballasting it) might make a suitable article in TTL ? Have you a view on this please, Mike W and the editorial team ?

AngusB
Graham Tipple
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Graham Tipple »

I'm sure many of us would appreciate more on this, please.

Merry Christmas, Graham
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

Happy New Year everybody.
2023 has gone and I've been struggling with making hinges for the doors. I wanted to make the hinge with 3 parts - the strap which fits on the door, the barrel for the pivot and the plate which bolts to the door post. The parts are easy to make (except that all 12 have to be the same size!), but the real killer is holding all 3 together in the right orientation while applying solder! A jig is needed! After quite a bit of trial and error (remember I need to make 12 of the little b-----s!), I finally managed it. The barrel is a piece of 0.5mm diameter x 1.5mm long copper wire with a flat filed on its length and I eventually found that the best way of restraining it was to insert it with the flat on top in a slot in a scrap piece of tufnol. The other parts can then be soldered upside down onto it. The presence of the embossed rivets is an added complication which needs further slots to accommodate. Hopefully the picture will help explain!
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The barrel is already inserted into its slot, ready for the other 2 parts to be soldered to it. The blue stuff on the left is blue-tak which is used to hold the strap in place while soldering. The finished article-turned over- is on the right. The magnification is rather cruel, and I can see that the plate isn't quite square and needs to be nudged over. Very little solder is needed, and minimal flux. As soon as you hear the flux hiss, the solder will melt and it's time to lift off the iron!
This is the first pair, laid in position. I need to add a hasp and chain to the right hand one....
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Hopefully now that I've established a technique which works, I'll be able to turn out the rest much quicker (jig-time maybe?)

I too would like to hear more about your experience with 3 axle vehicles AngusB - I'm sure we'd all be interested in a few pictures!

Alan
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

Hinges now all done (not before time i hear you say!). All I have to say is that it was a struggle - finally managed after help from Jig version 3! It turned out that a bit more accuracy was needed to achieve consistency. That's one of the problems with scratch-building - it's not so difficult to make small items, especially if there's only one per side and you don't have to show two or more side by side. But if you've got to make several and they all have to be as near as dammit all exactly the same and they're all showing together - oh boy!!
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This side I attempted to reproduce the pins which hold the hinges closed. Not sure if that isn't a bit ambitious - I think it's a bit overscale, and might change... The sharp-eyed will notice that an auxiliary tank is now visible below the solebar at the left side. This is the vacuum one (always the bigger of the two) Yet to fit the air one. I'll have more to say about that topic later.
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I left off the overscale pins on this side and it doesn't look too bad. Maybe a cosmetic glued in place may be all that's needed to them finish off.
Only lamp irons and a few odds and ends to do now. I want have the rake of fitted wagons to have their pipeage attached and not quite sure how to achieve that - most of the white metal castings I've seen are folded up!

Alan
Attachments
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Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

Everything now complete, ready for painting. Lots of (seemingly) little things to sort out - lamp irons and Vacuum/Westinghouse hoses.... I found out the hard way with lamp irons that it's easier to form the little blighters first, then solder them to a piece of copperclad board and thendrill the holes for the fixing pins.
The hoses were a different journey! I decided that I wanted them to be flexible, so that they can be attached with magnets either connected or unconnected. This is what I used:
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The hose itself is a jewellery beading item which I found on line: it's described as 'round nylon elastic jewellery beading' and is 0.8mm in diameter, although I regretted not going for the 1mm diameter size as it would have been more compatible with the 1mm diameter magnets! I've adjusted the lighting so that the weave pattern can be seen better - I'm hoping that after painting it will have better contrast and look more like the right appearance for the hoses. There's a short length at top left with a magnet epoxied onto the end. The magnet itself is 1mm diameter x 1mm long- there's one at top left. And there's a line of them at the bottom of the photo.
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The vac pipe has a magnet attached to each end, and fixes onto a steel filed-down rivet head epoxied onto the top stub of the white metal swans neck fitting at one end, and onto a steel pin which is inserted through the buffer beam at the other. I'm planning to also have an alternative arrangement which will have the bottom magnet attached to that of the next vehicle, to represent 'continuous brake', but have yet to 'convert' a neighbouring vehicle to try it out! The magnetic attraction isn't that strong (it's quite easily broken by handling), but I think it will survive normal running.
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The Westinghouse hose is more visible - it has a magnet at only one end and is epoxied to the underside of the buffer beam. The elastic centre of the beading can be persuaded to droop downwards in the same way the real hose does!
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This is a rather crueller view which shows why I would have been better with 1mm beading!
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And finally, a view of the underside, with both auxiliary tanks fitted.
Hopefully next time I can show two vehicles connected together in continuous braking mode....!
Thanks for watching
Alan
Jim Summers
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Jim Summers »

And thank you for posting, Alan.
And of course for tackling a tricky prototype.

JimS
Alan K
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Diagram 29 Milk Truck

Post by Alan K »

Well I eventually ditched the method shown the pictures above, and after quite a lot of trial and error came up with a simpler arrangement which isn't quite so ambitious! The vacuum pipes are now fixed at the top with superglue to the the swan's neck, so only have one magnet. This gives a better look than having a sleeve over the magnet end.
Here's the 'stowed' arrangement, with pipes disconnected:
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I just noticed that the Westinghouse hoses connected themselves - one of the marvels of magnetism that can be a nuisance as well!
The problem I found with attaching the magnets to form the connected condition is that bending the elastic centre (of the material I've used) to form the loop imposes a force on the magnets which tends to lift them off-position. They don't come apart, but the ends lift on the outside of the bend. But I managed to tweak them into place for this picture...
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And here are 3 wagons connected together. The Westinghouse pipes are much easier, as there is less of a bend involved.
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You can see that the magnet joint of the coupling at the right-hand side isn't quite fully in place, despite tweaking!
The van at the right needs some explanation: it's still in the process of conversion, but will be a dual-fitted Diagram 67 van aimed at reproducing the drawing which Mike1 showed recently in another thread. It's got oil axleboxes and larger solid wheels, but hasn't got clasp brakes and other brake gear including cylinders yet - that's the next project.
But the Milk Van is now in the queue for the paint-shop!
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